Midwestern Mommy

Speak up on “open classrooms”

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motherofbun on 12 Sep 2007

school and kids and Seth | Comments (35)

35 Responses to “Speak up on “open classrooms””

1. MammaLoves on 12 Sep 2007 at 2:33 am #

   Somethin’s up with your site. Everything is in the left hand column and really skinny.

   But I’m really here about your post.

   I just went to our back to school night and I had the same feeling. For a Kindergarten class everything was packed in tightly. I remember my wonderful kindergarten experience. There was LOTS of room to play in the classroom and it was neat and there wasn’t stuff EVERYWHERE. The floors were carpeted so we could play on them. There were shelves for things. I don’t know. And we wonder why our kids have ADD.

   Miss you!!

2. motomom on 12 Sep 2007 at 3:08 am #

   What you are describing sound like the school my kids went to from K-5. Both of my kids had the same teacher for kindergarten. My daughter was diagnosed in 3rd grade as having ADD, her kindergarten teacher did mention impulsivity as being a concern, but otherwise everything went well. My son had no problems.
   My bigger concern is why the teacher is complaining. School just started and especially with Kindergarteners it should be expected that it will take a week or so for them to get into the swing of things. Perhaps she is inexperienced and easily overwhelmed herself. I would talk to your son and see what his take on everything is, if possible drop by and observe the class at different times of the day, and do not hesitate to speak to the principal if you have any concerns.

3. Dawn on 12 Sep 2007 at 3:31 am #

   I worked in a school with an open layout. Once upon a time, with the exact right group of teachers, it was a fabulous concept.

   Today. Not so much. I hated it.

   My desk/office/classroom/phone for confidential conversations? All in a *hallway*.

4. Dana on 12 Sep 2007 at 3:52 am #

   Open classrooms? What kind of hippie crap is this?? This pisses me off. They have an unsuitable learning environment and they have the brass to claim that your son is the one with the problem?? Instead of recognizing that their classroom setup is a clusterfark they demand that you make Seth change HIS behavior? From what? That of a healthy child? And the sick policy? What on earth? Red flags!

   I would contact other parents and see if the classroom situation is a problem for anyone else and together demand a change in the classroom layout as it is clearly not conducive to learning.

   I will go up there and drywall with you. Or at least shake a hammer at someone.

5. linlee on 12 Sep 2007 at 4:03 am #

   Wow! I wouldn’t be able to concentrate either! What’s with schools these days. Anne is having HUGE problems with her sons school because of his food allergies. They won’t do anything to help her and if he comes in contact with any kinds of nuts it could kill him! His teacher won’t do anything to keep him safe. I just don’t understand why they don’t want to help kids these days.

6. nicolle on 12 Sep 2007 at 4:47 am #

   yeah, that seems pretty clustered. not to mention loud. although, here in Ca. the sick are encouraged to attend because of all the standardized testing… contrary to linlee’s coment, our school is 100% latex free, and food sharing is strongly discouraged because of food allergies. lrd, i miss the days when i didn’t have to worry about all this!

7. Fog City Mommy on 12 Sep 2007 at 5:28 am #

   wtf mate?

8. Cheryl on 12 Sep 2007 at 10:39 am #

   I don’t foresee the possibility of the school switching around their system. Personally, I’d find a new school with walls, write a letter to the editor of the local paper and set up an appointment to meet with the principal and superintendent to explain to them why my kid is leaving. At this point, his school career is just starting, and it probably won’t traumatize him too much to switch.

   On the other side, maybe he’ll adjust and be able to concentrate better on tasks even with outside distractions. Maybe he’ll be a better student in the long run than those crazy traditionalist, learning-with-walls folks. I don’t know.

   Good luck with this.

9. Pattie on 12 Sep 2007 at 11:25 am #

   Lisa,
   I do not have experience with open classrooms, but it sounds a bit much to me. As an adult, I think I would be distracted as well. It doesn’t sound like the environment agrees with your son. And hey, the teacher is already complaining about him? Hmm…I don’t know.

   The sick policy would concern me, to. If my kid were vomiting at 8pm, you bet your a$$ I wouldn’t be sending him to school the next morning.

   Have you talked to parents in the upper grades to see how they managed?

10. Kristin on 12 Sep 2007 at 11:45 am #

    Ugh. Just reading about it makes my head hurt… I NEVER would have been able to focus in that type of environment and I defy you to show me the child who does!

    Is this the same format/layout for the entire school? I guess the kids just get used to it?

    Good luck and stock up on the Purell.

11. Alissa on 12 Sep 2007 at 11:56 am #

    My mom taught in a school like that for years. The times I visited her there I was amazed–I couldn’t believe the noise and the distraction. There she’d be, teaching a lesson, and a kid from another class would have to walk right behind her desk on the way to the bathroom, or an ENTIRE CLASS would file through the back of her “room” (area, really) on their way to gym or lunch.

    She said she didn’t really like it, and neither did anyone else, but what could she do? She also said that the kids acclimated to it really quickly, and just viewed it as normal, and that the only kids that really had issues were older kids that had transferred from other, normal schools.

    If you’ve read my blog at all, you’ll know that Drew has the same issues as Seth, without the open-classroom excuse. Last year in K and this year in 1st grade both, his teachers have complained about his lack of focus and concentration. But he’s still getting top grades. I’d give him a few weeks to settle in, and if he’s still distracted set up a time with his teacher to discuss some extra activities for him in case he’s bored. And learn to live with it, because a year and a half of stress on my part hasn’t changed a thing with Drew and all it’s really accomplished for me is headaches and worry.

12. Rebekah on 12 Sep 2007 at 1:22 pm #

    I was going to make some politically incorrect statement but I didnt want to offend any democrates. I am with you, what the heck were people thinking

13. deb on 12 Sep 2007 at 2:55 pm #

    My oldest son is 23 and has ADD, so do I. I think it’s a bonus a plus not a deficit, allows me to make beds and listen for my youngest downstairs. Anyway, when my son was in grade one he was in an open concept classroom and it was a disaster. Too noisy, too distracting. I know for myself, when I need to get something done, I need quiet.

14. Tamberlyn on 12 Sep 2007 at 3:28 pm #

    I don’t like that set-up at all either. I was surprised how many pre-schools/daycares have that set-up and we chose one with individual rooms, for each age group. I would definitely visit a few more times and talk about it during your parent/teacher conference. When do they go to individual rooms? You could always request a change of school if you think he is not in the right environment……our school district allows it. You just have to provide the transportation.

15. Oh, The Joys on 12 Sep 2007 at 4:09 pm #

    I have no idea, but you bet I’ll be back to keep up on other’s comments!!

16. flybunny on 12 Sep 2007 at 4:53 pm #

    I can’t comment on the open classroom but as far as the sick policy goes, our school lets kids stay or come back if temp is 100 or less and I think that is pretty much the norm for our area but kids cannot come back unless they are vomiting/diarehha/over 100 temp free for 24 hours so I think that 12 hours is absurd and asking for multiple outbreaks of sickness. Yikes!

17. chris on 12 Sep 2007 at 5:33 pm #

    wow!

    I can’t imagine that! I can’t blame Seth for being distracted either. I am annoyed that Liberty’s kindergarten class has 22 (!) kids in it as I feel that is asking for trouble and lower learning ability. But to have a set up like that? That is just crazy!

18. Amber on 12 Sep 2007 at 6:38 pm #

    Good gracious! Such chaos. I’m DYING to get a peek inside a day at my daughter’s preschool but they don’t allow parent volunteers. And so I am reduced to spying.

19. creative-type dad on 12 Sep 2007 at 9:53 pm #

    “Open classroom”? - what kind of hippies came up with that dumb idea. Classrooms have enough distractions already.

    Where I teach (once a week) I wish my classroom studio didn’t have a window. I want gray (or white walls) with no clocks and nothing stuck on the ceiling

20. Farrell on 13 Sep 2007 at 3:24 am #

    dana: ditto

21. Nap Queen on 13 Sep 2007 at 3:34 am #

    That made ME feel crazy just reading about it!!

22. dodo on 13 Sep 2007 at 11:14 am #

    Open classrooms? sounds like an horrendous experience. we don’t have anything like that over here as far as I know. are there any figures from the 15 years of operation that demonstrate its effectiveness relative to more traditional classrooms?

23. jaelithe on 13 Sep 2007 at 2:41 pm #

    Wow– I didn’t even realize this type of layout existed in public schools. Shows what I know. This makes me want to check out my local public kindergarten classroom now, so I can plan! (For those who don’t know, my son is three).

    I could see how this type of layout might work out in a very small private school where all of the kids and teachers knew one another well, AND NO ONE USED HAMMERS DURING LESSON TIME, but, in a normal-sized school? Forget about it.

    How much have you been able to talk to Seth’s teacher about his sensory issues, and how willing has she been to listen to you? Does she seem to understand at all that this is NOT a discipline problem, but an actual medical problem that he has? If she is refusing to understand Seth’s needs, maybe you need to find someone else at the school who can advocate on his behalf. Is there a special school teaching assistant, a school nurse, or a guidance counselor there who might listen to you, and try to make the teacher understand?

    (As an aside, I am not sure why one might think this open classroom idea has anything to do with political affiliation. I have not heard any politicians campaigning on an “Open classrooms with noisy hammers for all!” platform recently. I can’t help but think that maybe if we grown-ups were a little more, ahem, grown up, in our interactions with one another over such issues, we might find ourselves better equipped to come together on behalf of our children and change some of the silliness in our public school system.)

24. Jenn on 13 Sep 2007 at 3:15 pm #

    Last year my daughter was in kindergarten in an “open classroom.” I didn’t really think much about it until you mentioned it. Last year was a HORRIBLE year for her. Up and out of her seat constantly, unable to focus or concentrate, constant talking, leaving the classroom on whim, constant conferences with her teacher about her “bad behavior,” etc. etc. I thought it was just her, but now it makes sense. She was distracted by the open classroom thing.

    This year…she’s in a more traditional classroom. The concept is still open classroom, but it’s laid-out differently with the “open” part at the center of a hub of classrooms, but walls separate the classrooms. There are far fewer distractions. And she’s not had a single problem yet, well over a month into the school year. It could definitely be the open classroom in kindergarten that caused a lot of the problems!

25. Delia on 13 Sep 2007 at 3:53 pm #

    Maybe your child isn’t focusing because he doesn’t want to focus. Maybe he has OCD, like yourself, and is thinking a germs all the time.

26. Andrea on 13 Sep 2007 at 7:14 pm #

    I’ve never heard of such a thing. I’m with Dana. I think seeing what the other parents in Seth’s class think is a good place to start.

    I don’t think I would learn well in such an environment, so I can’t imagine what a child would think, let alone a child with Seth’s sensory integration issues.

27. Tori on 14 Sep 2007 at 1:36 am #

    Hey Babe…

    It’s been ages…

    This classroom scene seems a little ridiculous. I have never heard of it to be honest. Our school is very much a classroom type with a doors that close and a multi purpose room for assemblies etc only. I am having a hard time even visualizing this circus.

    Sounds like it might not be the place for Seth! I mean kindergarten is really pretty free anyway in terms of structure but the whole point of it, is that it prepares the kids for future structure and gets them used to focusing. How can they expect the kinders to even get a chance to learn these skills in this chaos.

    My girls have had several approaches with their classrooms. One teacher went as far as to cover the bookshelves in the room so that the kids weren’t distracted too much. Another teacher researched brain function and found that having a specific kind of music in the background, playing very low, actually helped eliminate other distractions and get the kids to focus in. This is really the aim of school - to learn these disciplines and life skills that you need later on. I have never heard of a place where the focus isn’t on creating a calm environment for kids to do their best learning.

    My thoughts, don’t wait and see what the parents think, yank him… if not now then at the end of kinder unless the drywall situation improves ten fold. Otherwise - be prepared for lots of letters home. The place is way too overstimulating for Seth. Remember what we did to calm fussy babies - take them into a room with complete silence….

    Noise is chaos and that is not productive….

28. angela on 14 Sep 2007 at 3:04 am #

    My husband and I used to volunteer every week at an inner-city daycare center. They also had an open floorplan, where the entire school was in one huge room. They had little half-wall things separating the classrooms, but obviously that does nothing for the noise level, or for when people walk through the “hallways” to get to other classrooms. The poor kids could barely focus, even when just quietly playing with toys.

    In the last year or so, they finally moved nextdoor into their gorgeous new facility with real walls and it was like night and day between the two. I can tell the kiddos are doing much better in this new situation.

29. Alex Elliot on 14 Sep 2007 at 11:18 am #

    I have no experience with kindergarten whatsoever, but it’s sounds like a crazy environment. I felt tired just thinking about it. Is this something that can be brought up with the PTA (or PTO as it’s called out here)? Can you ask the teacher what sort of resources they provide for kids that have ADD or ADHD? Are they available to all kids?

30. Daisy on 14 Sep 2007 at 9:29 pm #

    I’ve subbed for teachers in that kind of atmosphere. It is difficult. It works for some kids, and not for others. I think you’re on the right track, deciding to volunteer a few more times before you decide to pull him out. Good luck!

31. slackermommy on 15 Sep 2007 at 1:53 am #

    Wow, I’m shocked. I guess I’ve always envisioned public school classrooms having a room for each grade with desks that the kids sat in most of the day. There is no way my kids could function in a room like that. Way too many distractions. This was my concern with the Montessori school that we chose for our kids where the kids work on their own or with another child. My worry was that the kids wouldn’t stay focused without constant guidance from the teachers and I worried about the noise. I was amazed when I observed the classroom. Even though there is constant motion in the room because the kids are all working on something different the class runs smoothly. There is soothing music in the background and everyone talks softly. The kids are spread out across the room either at tables or on a rug on the floor. They may only work with one other child which keeps the noise level down. I’m always amazed how well the teachers run their classrooms. They are pretty strict about hand washing and no food sharing also. They are sent home if their temp is above 100 and I’m not sure about vomiting. I would hope parents would use their common sense on that one.

    I understand your concerns, especially if Seth is having trouble focusing. Get together with the teacher and see if there is anything that can be done to improve the situation.

32. Maniacal on 16 Sep 2007 at 11:45 pm #

    I’m guessing that because they found that an “open enviornment” works well in offices that they figured it would be good in schools too. However, kids have such a hard time concentrating as is so it’s sounds like a bad idea. I wonder do the kids have the ability to move from group to group? Cause I would think that might be a good thing to keep the kids interested.

    LOL Maybe I’m reaching for straws here, I was just trying to find SOMETIHNG good about it. Not easy, apparently. lol

33. Kristi B. on 18 Sep 2007 at 12:56 am #

    How crazy!
    The only experience I have with this is my own—and now I’m forty. At the school I attended, the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd graders (and also the 4, 5, 6th in another—my memory is that the kinders were separate) were in what they called a “pod”—a sort of circular space that had break-down walls that divided each grade. Most of the time we were all separate and for certain special events, they folded up the walls that separated the rooms and we all did something together—like when they showed us all the video “Free To Be You and Me.” The break down walls made all the difference, I would guess, reflecting back on the situation. If I were you, I’d definitely make an appt with the principal to at least discuss WHY they do this crazy thing. Good luck!

34. LisaS on 19 Sep 2007 at 3:36 pm #

    My husband went to a high school that was like that–the subjects were clustered into pods so there was the English pod, Science pod, etc.–all around the central cafeteria pod. It was confusing to get around and led to a lot of distractions as you’ve noted.

    These things go in cycles (i.e., 1970’s, 1990’s), and the pedagogy behind it is great–classrooms working together, mixing ages of kids … but unfortunately, we (taxpayers) don’t want to pay what it would take to make it really work–separate classrooms, more teachers, and more than one multipurpose room. So we end up with this sort of thing that just plain doesn’t work, and there’s not much that can be done about it because (architect hat on now) most of the time school buildings are constructed in very permanent ways so they resist the abuse they take and last a long time.

    So far as the sick policy … we’re in the (don’t have a heart attack) City school district (but our particular schools are very good, thank you), but sick kids are isolated immediately, sent home, and not allowed to return until 24 hours after vomiting/releasing other bodily fluids besides snot or running a fever over 99. Your district’s policy is probably aimed at placating two-worker families who have difficulties with sick-kid care. I work too, and I understand the problem … but not when it gets everyone’s kid sick! I’d be gathering those who think similarly and going to the next school board meeting about that.

35. Nancy R on 23 Sep 2007 at 12:48 am #

    Lisa, so is it like the ‘open wing’ we had in high school? I think even those were drywalled into regular rooms in the last few years.

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